Helen : It’s the 30th January 2019 and this is an interview with Mr Derek Stephens at his home in Shanklin and I am Helen Clinton-Pacey and I am conducting the interview. First of all, I’d like to start with a few questions. Would you like to tell me your name?
Derek : Derek Stephens.
Helen : When and where were you born?
Derek : I was born in Wilton Park Road in Shanklin.
Helen : What date?
Derek : 1947.
Helen : Family background including parent’s occupation?
Derek : My father was a Baker, always a night Baker and my mother didn’t work when I was a baby and that sort of thing, but she went on to work at Farmers Dairy which was an ice cream making company which is now where the Bay View apartments are in the main Sandown Road. It used to be the Farmers Dairy.
Helen : Where shall we start then? Do you want to start from where you were born and your earliest memories?
Derek : Yes, I don’t know if I said I had an elder brother, so I was always within my brother’s sort of footsteps and he was four years older than me, but I mean an elder brother you tend to follow don’t you as a youngster. In the early days when I was a great young person, I don’t have much memories of that to be honest with you. I mean my first memories was when I went to school and I started the school and … ‘cos I went to school at Gatten Lake which is now houses (laughs) everything’s gone you see.
Helen : How old were you when you left school?
Derek : I left school when I was 15. I mean I went to Gatten Lake and when we got to the last year of Gatten Lake when we had the exams for Secondary or Grammar school, 12 of us passed for the Grammar school …
Helen : Out of how many?
Derek : About 30, but there was only six places at the Grammar school for the school so our names were put into a hat. Six went to Grammar and mine wasn’t in the hat so I went to the Fairway (laughs). I mean these days you wouldn’t do such a thing, it just would not be acceptable, you know, but that’s the way they done it, put your name in a hat, ‘you’re going to Grammar, you’re going to Fairway’ and that sort of thing you know. Anyway, so I went to the Fairway School where they put in a new stream which they called 1G1 and 1G2 which was to cater I suppose for people that had basically passed for the Grammar school and hadn’t gone so I imagine the ‘G’ stood for Grammar, I don’t know. So, I went through there for four years and when I was 15, the situation was, ‘what are you going to do?’ and I had no idea whatsoever and so I took a local entry examination for the Inland Revenue. There was a possible job at Inland Revenue and so I took an exam at Priory Girls in Newport, which is not Priory Girls now, but that’s where the exam was, and I passed the exam and they were pleased to offer me a job and the job was in Gosport. And the wage was … got a note here I think somewhere …
Helen : Abroad! (laughs).
Derek : Abroad yeah, I mean you know, oh dear, must be on the second paper, just forget what the page was, yeah, £4 a week. That’s what was offered at Gosport. The only trouble was, it was 12 shillings a day return to get there.
Helen : A day.
Derek : A day, so if you work that out, that was £3, so it would have left me £1 and my parents were looking for money ‘cos they weren’t rich (laughs). “About time you put some money in the pot” sort of thing you know, so I didn’t take the job, which on hindsight was a big mistake but of course then there was no money about so times were hard, you know.
Helen : What year would that have been?
Derek : 1962 that would be. So, I then applied for a job at Wadhams Ltd which was a garage chain which have long since gone off the Island once again. They were a massive company at Shanklin as a Storeman Clerk. I mean it was a sort of a job for training up, so I actually went there because I got the job and I started there at £3 per week. They didn’t pay as well as the Government you see (laughs). £3 per week and no travel. £3 an on your bike. With stoppages, I think I used to take home £2 eight and threepence (laughs), so it was sort of £1 for mother and £1 for me, basically when we started, but I mean everybody was happy with that. You could get a lot for £1 in those days couldn’t you?
6 minutes
Helen : So, how long did you stay there then?
Derek : I stayed there until 1967 when we were all made redundant because they closed it. It was the Shanklin site and the garage I worked in is up Pomona Road, which is now a frozen meat company place there, WBS I think it is, and they used to have a forecourt in Victoria Avenue where they built new flats opposite the Library. That’s where the forecourt used to be, so it was a twin double place so then I went to Frank Chivertons in Newport which was a Ford dealer. I mean this is pre-Premier. I mean they became Premier, but I mean this was Frank Chivertons and they sort of owned half of Newport. So, I worked there in their Electrical Department Store, so I was there for about 2 ½ years I suppose that’s all and then I flew the Island. I left the Island and went to London to work.
Helen : For?
Derek : Now this is a funny thing. I can’t remember how long I was there. Now this is silly as it may seem and I really wracked my brains at times to know how long I was there, but I remember coming to the Isle of Wight Pop Festival in 1970 from London so I lived in London then, but I still came to it and …
Helen : That was Jimmy Hendrick’s year.
Derek : Yeah, the whole three day job, and we came down from London to that and I think I must have been there until the next spring because my memories sort of build from the spring again after that I was back here so I think I was only there just over a year but I’d flown my wings if you like and stretched myself so I came back with a bigger knowledge of the World if you like (laughs) as you could say. I came back here, and I got a job with Wadhams (laughs), the company that I’d been made redundant from and they had … are you an Islander?
Helen : No, unfortunately.
Derek : Oh right, OK. Fowlers were a big garage in Newport and Wadhams took Fowlers over but they still kept the Fowlers name and their showroom was where the British Heart Foundation is now, down near County Hall, and it used to go right through to Pyle Street, it used to go right through, so the garage was at the back basically and the showroom was at the front, so I worked there. And then they transferred me to their Depot in Cowes, which is where Leslies is, at Northwood, that was Wadhams Northwood, so then I worked there until ’75 when they built a new garage up Riverway, which is now Premier and Riverside I think it is next to it, so the whole unit. There’re two garages now but we had the whole unit.
Helen : So Pyle Street has still got the original doors hasn’t it?
Derek : It probably has, yes. These things did, they stayed didn’t they? And the showroom in the front which is where the Heart Foundation is, that is exactly the same basically as it was then, you know, so things don’t change there. So, I went there, and I moved in there when they were still building it basically, ‘cos we had to transfer the stock from two Depots of parts. I was in the Parts game basically in the Riverside so all the different parts, so Fowlers in Pyle Street had a few thousand parts there and then Northwood had a few thousand parts because Northwood used to be the Jaguar Dealership as well, so it was my job to establish the Department up there in Riverway so I established the Store. So, we had all new racking in and I had to get all the stock and move it away and we used to move the stock about with a big van which we borrowed … I think it was Wonderloaf or something. There used to be a Baker’s behind the Northwood Garage which is now Phillips Fine Fish, or something was there. Anyway, it behind the Garage and they used to have about 12 or 15 3 tonnes vans basically which they done the bread deliveries all around the Island with, so when they finished that sort of thing, I mean the van was sort of spare but I mean we had one to borrow because we used to service all their vehicles and moved all the stock from Northwood and from Newport round to the new Depot and set that up.
11 minutes 25 seconds
Helen : And how long did you stay there?
Derek : I stayed there until 1980. I was Manager by 1980, I’d moved myself up to Manager and then we were all made redundant (laughs).
Helen : Did you affected by the Miner’s strikes and no electricity on the Island?
Derek : We used to have these sort of three hours periods off and all this sort of thing, you know, which we had to work ourselves around, yeah.
Helen : ‘Cos that’s ’74, that’s when I first came.
Derek : Was it? To the Island?
Helen : Yeah.
Derek : I mean you had to work around it didn’t you? You couldn’t do much about it so you worked around it, be it torch or anything else. I mean luckily in those days; we weren’t into the electronics that we are now so we didn’t have computers. If we’d had computers, I mean the thing would have just died wouldn’t it, but I mean in those days it was all hand jobs (laughs). It was all writing and typing.
Helen : And I still think that should be now but never mind.
Derek : Yes, it’s just writing and typing so …
Helen : And then when you were there then, how old would you be in the late ‘70s? How old would you have been?
Derek : Um, ’47 so I would have been 30 in ’77 so I was 33 when we were all made redundant again.
Helen : Were you married by then?
Derek : I married in 1973 so yeah I was. Married in ’73 so that finished that game there although the week before they came down by helicopter and parked in the field next to it because we were the first building built up there. They came from Liverpool, by helicopter, the Directors to emphatically deny the rumours that we were going to close. And we were made redundant the following week. How about that? That was clever wasn’t it? Maybe used to work in those days, yeah.
Helen : About right.
Derek : So, we got into a mixed situation there because we were the main distributers for Unipart, which was a Company which had been made up from British Leyland for parts and it had become separated so it had become a separate entity but it was an ‘all makes’ field so they made parts for all sorts of cars including the sort of the Rover side. It’s a bit complicated to sort of explain to somebody that’s not well into it, but it was separated but it all came from the same place, if you get my meaning, you know, and Unipart were emphatic about keeping it on the Island. They said, you know, “You’ve got to do something” ‘cos I was Manager then of the Parts Department, so they said, “You’ve got to do something find either a Dealer, one of our Dealers to do it or set up yourself.” And they said, “Money is no problem” they said, “set it up” so we went through … I mean it was a funny situation because when we were made redundant, they just came down and sort of said, you know, they gave us all redundancy letters and a chap came there who was a Manager at Southampton and he came over and he said, “Right” he said, “this is your redundancy paperwork.” He said, “You’ve got four hours to collect your stuff and leave.” After that he said, “You’re not welcome here” which got in my gullet a bit …
Helen : Another thing they couldn’t do today.
Derek : No, that’s right but that’s the sort of thing they used to do so I collected all my stuff together and left eventually I tied up with Unipart and Westridge Garage at Ryde and they became the new Rover Leyland Dealers and Parts, so they set it up there. I was sort of badgering them one way and …
Helen : Did this present any problems with you? I mean if you were married then? Had you got children by then?
15 minutes 21 seconds
Derek : Umm, yeah had a daughter.
Helen : And did you have to find alternative work or …?
Derek : Well I … no, not really because I didn’t really become out of work for very long to be honest with you. I was sort of … I don’t know, I think what they done, I think Wadhams cancelled the pension fund at the same time, so they paid us out if my memories right. They cancelled the pension and paid out the pension, so I got something like about £900 which in 1980 was OK. I could work off of that so I lived on that I suppose, part of that and then worked for Westridge from the start of December and set it all up running from there, and it was quite funny because I was working for Westridge and I was still driving a Wadham’s car. I had a Company car you see, and they’d sort of forgotten about that somewhere so I was working for one person, and driving the car from somewhere else and then somebody phoned me up one day and they said, “Have you still got the Company car?”
Helen : What car is that then? (laughs)
Derek : I said, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” (laughs). Of course, they knew I’d had it so they came over from the Mainland and collected the Company car, so that was my sort of end with them then, completely. But the whole Company just doesn’t exist now. It’s just gone.
Helen : It’s a name that I know though.
Derek : I mean they had something like about 50 Depots throughout the country and stretched everywhere but there’s just nothing now. I mean they went in for a different Companies and a Travel Company bought them and all this sort of thing and it al just … it was one of these things in the ‘80’s that just died eventually. Everybody lost money and it sort of went down but my sort of, you know, so that was the second time I was made redundant basically and then I was down at Westridge for … well I was at Westridge until I finished work so I was there 32 years I think. Yes, 32 years I was there.
Helen : And it’s still there now.
Derek : Well, they are but they’re not Leyland and the actual warehouse which we used to have was down in East Street at Ryde and there was a big warehouse there which we used to use and I don’t know what that’s used for now, but I mean Westridge owned it and they owned Bellevue Garage next to it and everything, but whether they’ve sold it off I don’t know. You see in about 2001, 2002, Unipart which was our main supplier which came from Cowley in Oxford, we stocked something like about £150,000 worth of stock and they used to deliver by truck once a week, every week, and in early 2001, 2002, they stopped supplying. They closed their distribution network throughout the country, that was it, finished, closed down, gone, so everybody in the country had this situation of there was no parts supply anymore from them.
Helen : Do you think somebody didn’t like you going to these places and they were shutting down?
Derek : It’s funny, you know. I know some of the Companies on the Mainland because by then I knew a lot of Managers all around the country and a lot of them took Court action against Unipart for loss of money. I mean we didn’t, but they did and I think they got their funds eventually after about four or five years. It was a very long fight, but I mean there were places on the Mainland which were two or three times the size of us, so I mean there was a lot of money lost there. And there was no continuity from them you see?
Helen : So how … you said you got married in ’73. How did you meet your wife? Was she an Islander?
Derek : Yep.
Helen : Where did you meet her? I mean, you’re working, what was your entertainment?
Derek : I worked with my wife. My wife is five years older than me so I’m a ‘toy boy’ …
Helen : Oh yes, I’ve got one of them (laughs).
Derek : It doesn’t feel like it (laughs). She came and worked at Wadhams at Shanklin when I was a wee boy. I mean I was sort of 16 I suppose, 17, and she came ‘cos she had done secretarial work and she came as the Secretary there for about a year and I think it was a year, 18 months, and then she went to Britten-Norman ‘cos Britten-Norman sort of poached her. That’s another Company that went, so I knew her from there but that’s all, I just knew her, that’s all.
20 minutes 32 seconds
Helen : ‘Cos you was only a boy.
Derek : I was only a boy and she was a woman and you know, there was nothing there at all, but it was funny ‘cos when I came back from London in 1971, I came back, and she lived at Lake. Not very far away she lived and I came round on my way home to Shanklin ‘cos I lived in Wilton Park Road with my parents still, I came back to my parents, and she was coming out the shop and I recognised her you see and I stopped and chatted and she got in the car and we chatted and I took her home which was just up the road and chatted, and she got into terrible trouble because she’d been sent to the shop to get something and I think she got back about an hour later, and from there we went out and it sort of started you know. It was a long sort of … it was a strange courtship if you like.
Helen : Bit daunting with her being five years older.
Derek : Well I … I mean she worked then she worked at the Broadway Park Hotel at Sandown and she used to work on a sort of a shift pattern so she used to finish at … on a Wednesday she would finish at nine o’clock in the evening and the Sunday she’d finish at nine o’clock and that’s the days we went out. We went out on a Wednesday and a Sunday. That’s all we went out, you know, so that was a very long courtship if you like and I asked her if she would marry me in October ’72 and we got married in October ’73. So, there was no rush and tear about anything (laughs). I mean we’d sort of grown older by then anyway, you know, so that’s when we got married in ’73.
Helen : And when was your daughter born? You’ve just got the one child?
Derek : ’75 she was born.
Helen : ’75. She still live on the Island?
Derek : She lives in Lake.
Helen : Oh does she?
Derek : With three sons.
Helen : Three grandsons.
Derek : Yes, we’ve got three grandsons. Those three, yeah. The trouble is some of those pictures are out of date because one’s 18, one’s 16 and one’s 11 now and that’s her over there, my daughter there. I mean she bumped into a fellow down at Bogeys Night Club down at Sandown, that’s where she bumped into him and they sort of had a long courtship and he came from Croydon. He’s only just moved here actually and my daughter had been a Nanny on the Mainland for about 12 years and she was still a Nanny then when she met him and she came back and they got married over here and they lived here and we always thought it would be the other way, that she would marry on the Mainland and live on the Mainland somewhere, but she didn’t. She lives in Lake, so she’s close by me.
Helen : Yes, so what did your wife do? Was she always the Clerk and Secretary …?
Derek : She was Secretary at Broadway Park and then when we had our daughter, she didn’t work. She done a bit of evening work over the Pub at Wroxall because we lived in Wroxall. When we first married we moved to Godshill and lived in a flat in Godshill which is on the main road there which was a very nice flat and it cost me £10 per week (laughs), and that was a lot of money.
Helen : It was yeah.
Derek : I was earning about £25 per week and that was £10 but it was a new place and we stayed there for three years, you know, it was quite alright actually, quite happy. It was just that as our daughter was born in sort of ’75 and as it got on we found it was just an incumbrance because we had a flat upstairs so you had top go up stairs and it was a bit of a pain so we bought a house in Wroxall, on the main road in Wroxall, Yarborough Terrace. So, we moved there in ’76 and we stayed there until ’85 I think. By that time my wife’s mother had died, she died quite young, and her father had gangrene in one leg so that was removed and then he had gangrene in the other leg and that was removed plus my wife had a sister who was a Down’s Syndrome sister and she lived at home with her mother and of course her mother died and then she lived with her father. Then the father was just hospitalised and everything else and eventually we moved down to Lake where they lived. You know, I said we would sell our place and move in there as long as he signed over the house to me.
26 minutes
Helen : And did he?
Derek : Umm.
Helen : Good.
Derek : The trouble is he’d moved into the house in about 1937 …
Helen : Oh crikey!
Derek : … when it was a new build and it had never been decorated since so it was very original. It’s not something you could really live in by those times. I mean we were used then to central heating and I mean they didn’t even have a ‘fridge down there.
Helen : No?
Derek : No, no ‘fridge, gas cooker and that was it so it was another one of these places you’ve just got to completely grout it out. The whole lot got thrown out and we started from scratch and we built an extension on the back so there was more room and it was nice there and we stayed there until 2009, when we decided that we would sell up and move on because it needed quite a bit doing to it again, so we did and then we went through sort of a various few renting places and we moved here in 2013.
Helen : Here?
Derek : Yeah, so we’ve been here five years. That’s that basic bit.
Helen : So, entertainment wise then …
Derek : So, if I go back to my childhood days …
Helen : Yes, you can go back to your childhood days.
Derek : … ‘cos childhood days is quite … what did I write here?
Helen : Was you a little rascal?
Derek : Not me. When I was seven, my mother went to work at Farmers Ice Cream Factory which I said, and this meant that in the summer holidays I was sent to enjoy the beach with my cousins. Every day of the school holiday we were sent to the beach (laughs) and I remember that quite distinctly because every day I used to have a cheese and tomato sandwich and a cake ‘cos my dad used to make cakes in his work, so we always had cakes. So, it was a cheese and tomato sandwich and a cake and we went whether it rained or whether the sun was out and I remember we used to sort of play in the wet sand and I had one of these woollen trunks, you know what I mean, you know, which historically had a terrible reputation and they were like that you know (laughs). Come out of the water and … oh, awful you know, but I mean in those days, I mean we’re talking about the ‘50’s aren’t we, yeah mid ‘50’s weren’t we and the seafront was always very much alive then, in the middle ‘50’s, I mean it was always full of hundreds and hundreds of holidaymakers and you only remembered that the sun always shone but I mean I know damn well that the sun didn’t always shine, you know. Always had a Regatta in August down there and the Regattas in those days were massive affairs …
Helen : I bet.
Derek : … there used to be stalls and entertainment along the whole Shanklin seafront from one end to the other, the whole Front. Entertainment and all sorts of things there, you know, it was really a big thing and my uncle, uncle Claude, who was my dad’s brother, he used to have a goat cart.
Helen : A goat?
Derek : A goat cart. He used to have a four-wheel cart with goats that used to run … I mean I’ve never seen one since but he used to have goats which used to be the transport and he used to go up and down the Front all day in the summer with rides.
Helen : But goats aren’t very big.
Derek : No, but they used to take this cart (laughs). I mean I’ve not got a picture or anything of it, it’s a shame but yeah, he used to have a goat cart and I think he used to have four goats used to pull it and never heard of really. I’ve no idea where that idea came from but yeah, and that was his job. In the summer he was just up and down the seafront all the time with his cart going up and down and we used to ride on it free of course when we were there, you know, and then they had firework night and the firework night was a spectacular night. I mean it was a really spectacular firework display and I usually as a special treat allowed to watch it.
30 minutes 32 seconds
Helen : Oh right.
Derek : We used to along the top of the cliff and watch it from the top of the cliff.
Helen : Because they don’t start ‘till about 9 or something like that don’t they?
Derek : No that’s right. I should have been in bed but I mean you know, we got to that. I mean when we were down there, we used to get to know the Longshoremen. There was Bert Kemp and Tom Loosemore who were avid fishermen and used to run trips as well on the Sunday you know, Beach Inspector, Mr Fry, who was a sprightly fellow. In those days they used to have a Beach Inspector who used to walk up and down with his walking stick and if anything was wrong or there a bit of rubbish or a bit of mess somewhere I mean he would sort it out, you know. So, those days have gone as well, haven’t they?
Helen : Yes, sadly.
Derek : Yes, so we used to do that, and they used to winch the boats up onto the beach in those days. The boat used to come in and they used to have this great big winch that used to wind them in and they used to have boats full of fish and all this sort of thing, all sort of fresh and that sort of thing, and they used to wash the boats out and then the next tide, they were down there taking people up to Luccombe land slip and that sort of thing in the boat. You know, taking them up for trips and we used to go with them as well sometimes because we never had any money, but I mean they knew us and we sort of messed around with them and that sort of thing you know. Thought we were important doing something although what they expected I don’t know what you know. We used to also go on the Pier quite a bit because Shanklin Pier was there then and you always remembered … there was tall man on the Pier and he had a club foot and he used to shuffle about and he used to be one of these people who had a satchel round him with pennies in so you used to change money to people but we never liked him. We had to try and always avoid him you know ‘cos he was a scary sort of person.
Helen : Oh right, yes, probably so if he was tall.
Derek : That’s right, you know, he was tall and as I say he picked his foot up as he walked, it was sort of a bit scary you know, so we used to go on there and we used to look for pennies on the floor and we used to look at the little [inaudible] in the slot machines and things like that. It was an absolute pain really. We never paid to go on the Pier, we used to wait until there was a crowd going on and sort of just go through with them. Trouble is you’ve got the wisest kids doing this, you know …
Helen : Yes. You probably know, I can’t remember his surname, there’s a gentleman I know called Michael and he was always on Sandown Pier or Shanklin Pier giving them a nudge and getting pennies out of them.
Derek : That’s right, I don’t know, when you’re kids, you’ve got no money, I mean we were never given any money. We were just sent down with this packet of a sandwich and a cake and never had any fruit in those days either.
Helen : No, it would still be rationing I think wouldn’t it?
Derek : Yeah, probably was. Nothing about at all. Yeah, we used to do that and if we had a penny we’d try to drop … you know the pennies or we decided we’d had enough pennies and we could go and buy an ice cream or something, you know and we used to also go into the Summer Arcade. There was another place on the Front which was called the Summer Arcade. Are you familiar with Shanklin seafront?
Helen : Yes.
Derek : In the middle now there’s an amusement group isn’t there which is now quite a massive building …
Helen : Yes, it is.
Derek : … but in my day that was two Amusement Arcades and they were separate and they weren’t owned by the same person, so one was in competition with the other and we used to go in there as well and mooch about as you might say, seeing anything we could find, you know, and in the Arcade they had Scooter Boats. Now you’ve probably never heard of Scooter Boats, but they were Bumper Cars as boats.
Helen : Oh, right.
Derek : So, they had a mesh at the top which the electric came from on a pole and they were boats and they used to drive the boats round in the Scooter Boats. You wouldn’t have them these days because health and safety wise, electric and water don’t mix (laughs) but that’s what they had, you know, and we used to be amazed at all these sorts of things and in my growing up basically they did as well. So, when I was [shuffles paper], about 11 or 12, I started to work there, and I used to be in control of the boats.
35 minutes 41 seconds
Helen : What these water boats?
Derek : Yes and I used to give change as well and it was just part of summer holidays you know; you got a job. If anybody managed to sort of get any money it was a job. We were always interested in it basically because …
Helen : I think it was more expected then as well, wasn’t it?
Derek : Yeah, I think so, so I bumped into Mr Jacob’s children. The chap who owned it was Mr Charles Jacobs. He owned the Summer Arcade and I bumped into his children, sort of knew his children vaguely ‘cos they lived down Sandown Road not far from me in Wilton Park Road at Shanklin, and I asked about a job and I ended up then, I was aged 11 here, I ended up working there every day in the summer holidays except Sundays because Sundays I was expected to go to Church three times.
Helen : Slave labour.
Derek : It was brought up as going to Church three times on a Sunday. You know, Morning Service, afternoon Sunday School, and Evening Services. It was expected of me and you never fought it because that was the way it was. I mean Sundays were different in those days weren’t they?
Helen : Yes, everything shut down.
Derek : Everything was closed. That’s right. Nothing was there, you know, it was all closed down you know so it was clear. I was basically a ‘jack of all trades’. I used to sweep up, give change for the machines, you know, put disinfectant in the toilet or anything else we could do and I got on to these Scooter Boats by standing in for the lunchbreak, and the chap who used to run the boats there was called Mr Barrowman and for some reason, I don’t know, he went and ran the Crazy Golf and they said, “Well, you’ll have to run the Scooter Boats in the summer then”, so I used to run the Scooter Boats on my own.
Helen : Quite a responsibility.
Derek : Yeah, but you never thought of these things, you know, I mean you used to have a walking stick, used to pull them in, the people came in and got off and away they went again. Never saw any fear or anything, you know, and if anybody really got into trouble you used to jump into the water and go across and sort it out, because it was only two or three feet deep, so it was no problem. It was just built like a great big fish pond, that’s all it was, and I mean I haven’t been there for years but it’s probably still there. Scooter Boats. I don’t know if they had a …
Helen : I must ask about Scooter Boats. I bet somebody’s got something how know anything about them.
Derek : [sorting through papers]. I did have something in the history thing somewhere, but I don’t know. The trouble is with me, I’m always doing archiving and I get bits everywhere.
Helen : Yes, so do I.
Derek : I’m doing Palmerston Players at the moment.
Helen : Doing …?
Derek : Palmerston Players.
Helen : What’s that?
Derek : They were a group that worked in the Shanklin area from 1928 to 1975 and they were an amateur group. The Palmerston Players so I’ve got all this to sort out basically, you know, to put it all into file order and everything. There’s a lot of it and the trouble is there’s no dates on anything.
Helen : Are you well interested into Theatre work and whatever?
Derek : Oh yeah, that white file there is Shanklin Theatre archive.
Helen : Is it really?
Derek : Yes, I’ve archived there from when it was built, and I just like doing that sort of thing. I’ve done archiving of Shanklin Pier as well. I’ve got Shanklin Pier history and I just do it for fun. It’s not fun really ‘cos it’s laborious but I enjoy it.
Helen : It is, it’s a fun not fun.
Derek : I enjoy finding things out about all these things you know, and … so anyway I worked on these Scooter Boats and I done this job for a couple of seasons and so when I was 13, I moved from the Summer Arcade as I thought all sorts of alterations were going on and probably I got bored. Typical teenage boredom, you know, I needed to do something else. My next move was to work in a café at Appley Sands which is not Ryde, this is Shanklin Appley which is the far end of the beach at Shanklin, so …
40 minutes 15 seconds
Helen : What, Fishermans Cottage end?
Derek : Yes, past Fishermans Cottage and there’s some beach huts there and at the end of the beach huts used to be the Appley Café…
Helen : Oh right, I’ve heard of this.
Derek : … which was on the level from the steps from Rylstone, so you had had steps from Rylstone down, you used to come on to good hard board and then the Café was there, and I went and worked there. The building’s not there now. Nothing is, is it historically? Everything moves on you know. It was owned by Maurice Lanslew who was an ex-Policeman from London and I worked there for a couple of seasons and I remember as I worked there, I also worked … his mother and father had a Café under the Pier, to the right hand side of the Pier and I used to work there as well so sometimes I used to do a morning at Appley and then an afternoon for teas at the one at the Pier and this sort of thing. Running up and down and doing these sorts of things and I also went there from school, before the summer term broke, so I used to go in the evenings and go down there and work and basically sort of clean and wash up all the crockery because they used to do teas and this sort of thing. Used to go out on trays and everything covered in sand and then go and find the trays ‘cos nobody put a deposit on anything and bring it all back. And I used to work there and then I went and worked there after school and in the summer holidays. They used to pay me £5 per week.
Helen : A lot of money.
Derek : A lot of money. Mind you, when you think about it I used to work there six days a week plus … in the summer holidays I used to work six days a week and sometimes seven.
Helen : You wouldn’t think anything about it would you?
Derek : No, I never got any more, it was a £5 note and that was it you know? We used to go down in the summer holidays and we used to go down to the Appley one and we’d go swimming first thing in the morning. Half past eight we’d go swimming and all the mackerel used to be in the Bay and they used to circle you, all these mackerel as you were swimming.
Helen : Oh wow!
Derek : And then we’d come back in, dry off and open the Café (laughs), Oh dear. ‘Cos I mean when I went to Wadhams at 15, I was still working down the beach that summer and they said, “Well, your wage will be £3 per week” and I said, “Well I’m earning five now” like you do as a teenager, and they said, “Well, this is a permanent job, it’s not a beach job, this is a permanent job for your sort of growing up” so that was it (laughs).
Helen : Yes, it would be.
Derek : So, things were different there weren’t they so this basically moves on to when I was sort of 18 I suppose because things just carried on there. I used to work at the Garage and we used to do 45 hour week so it used to be from sort of 8 ‘til 5:30 and then Saturday mornings, which was just part of the week, you had to work Saturday mornings as well and do that and then when I was 18, I returned to the area for the beach, not working but socialising really you know. My brother used to work on the Shanklin Pier in the evenings in the Theatre where they always had a seasonal Concert Party and he used to work back stage and the Stage Manager was a man called Ted Diffey and he was also a local Fireman.
Helen : Who, Ted Diffey?
Derek : Ted Diffey was a local Fireman and on Tuesdays they used to have a practice night which he liked to go to, so he used to get someone in to do basically his job or to cover him when he used to go to the, you know, and do his training. I luckily was picked.
Helen : It was you.
Derek : I was picked in those years and I went there and worked on the sort of stage.
Helen : The smell of the greasepaint.
Derek : Well that’s right and I loved that job and it became a permanent sort of evening job the following year so the following year I worked there until the 1969 season, so I worked there from ’65 …
Helen : Did you tread the boards?
Derek : No, no, I was just an actual stage worker you know, but the leisure time with the artists at the Theatre, you know the dancers and the comedians and all that, it used to be a wonderful time. We used to socialise like mad there. We used to join together in the Pier Pub afterwards or we’d go back to have a house party, or we’d have a bar-b-que on the beach and all this sort of thing. Wonderful growing up times, you know, and in those days you used to have a bar-b-que on the beach and you used to invite the Police as well and they used to come and have a drink and something to eat as well and there was never any trouble because they were all in their pocket you know. And I done that, as I say, to ’69 when I left and went to London, but I came back and I was back for the 1972 season and I done the 1972 season there again, which was with the Temperance Seven.
45 minutes 40 seconds
Helen : Can you remember any of the acts that were on?
Derek : The Temperance Seven were in ’72. That was their show, the Temperance Seven Show and we worked there that year and then in ’73 we had Anne Shelton, the Anne Shelton Show.
Helen : Oh I remember her, blonde lady.
Derek : Blonde lady, yeah, and that was my last year there ’73 basically, because the end of the season finished, and they didn’t know what they were going to do and it had all changed by ’74. They had a different Management in and everything. It was different. It was changed into a bit of a Night Club thing and I was newly married anyway so didn’t get involved with it at all. The Anne Shelton Show I remember was … it was the busiest season I ever done down there because the Theatre was full up every night and that’s no word of a lie. It was full up every night. There was no seats available throughout the whole season and I mean I didn’t know at that age who the hell Anne Shelton was to be honest with you …
Helen : No, probably not.
Derek : … who’s Anne Shelton? Some old Dame from the War and nicest of people, absolutely super person she was, and she was with her sister Jo Shelton. She had a sister Jo Shelton who never aspired to what Anne Shelton did, but she was her Dresser. She used to dress her and she was quite a big lady, Anne Shelton and she used to invite us down to other shows ‘cos she was always being invited to other Theatres for shows and after the shows and all this sort of thing you know, and they used to have special midnight matinees and that sort of thing and she used to say, “You’ve got to come along with us, yeah come with us” and we used to sort of go into these places you know, like Sandown and Ryde, you know, the ones that had these shows on. At the end she gave us all a cut glass mug which I’ve no idea where it is, I haven’t seen it for years which is silly isn’t it, but she got us all on the stage and sort of thanked us and all that sort of thing but I mean she was that friendly, she knew all our names and spoke to us.
Helen : A mother figure, wasn’t she?
Derek : Yeah, and her husband used to bring her to the Theatre every night and he had a Rolls Royce. He brought her in a Rolls Royce and they used to park in the ‘D’ of the Pier ‘cos there used to be a ‘D’ in the Pier then and he used to park there every night and they used to walk up to the Theatre, you know, and people used to talk to them and they used to be ages getting up there sometimes, but they were a lovely crowd, they really were, you know, and they’re all dead now of course, they’ve all gone, you know, but that was one of the best seasons and it was, as I say, always full up.
Helen : Did the Shanklin Pier, obviously before it got blown down, did it just sort of peter out with society or … ‘cos you were saying that it was absolutely full all the time, did that sort of …?
Derek : Yeah, I mean I never knew it as full as the Anne Shelton Show. It sort of went off on a high to be honest with you. I mean in 1973, which was her show, I mean that was the biggest show I’d ever sort of worked with. It was very professional the way it was run, if you get my meaning, ‘cos a lot of the Concert Parties that come in they were a bit sort of slap dash in times, but with her you had all your lighting cues listed, your sound cues and everything, so it was absolutely to the button and we always finished the same time every night because that was the way it worked.
Helen : Oh yes, no running over.
Derek : No, that’s right. It was good. In those days when we run the Pier Shows there, on Regatta Night, they used to break for the fireworks. So, they used to do the first half and sometimes they extended the first half a bit and then, I mean the fireworks were always half past nine, and they stopped and they opened all the side doors because in the Theatre in the Pier, all the doors used to open onto the actual walk outside, and people could still go out and watch the fireworks. Then they’d come back and then off we’d go again; we’d carry on with the show. But in the earlier years, before I worked there, they used to have a Midnight Matinee on Regatta Day. They used to do the Show, finish the Show and then they used to have a midnight Old Tyme Musical to about two in the morning. I mean this was before my time. Regattas in those days were a big thing in Shanklin, you know as they must have been all round the country. That’s when the Navy used to come and park one of their warships and they used to come over and drink and join in and that sort of thing, but no, good days. I remember those days; good days and it was good actually doing the archive of it ‘cos I archived it through with all the reports of the Shows.
50 minutes 38 seconds
Helen : When there was the winds in ’80 whatever it was, I can’t remember …
Derek : What when it blew down?
Helen : Yeah, did it blow down in one go?
Derek : Yep, the Theatre as such was in the middle and do you remember Shanklin Pier at all or not?
Helen : Vaguely.
Derek : Vaguely. I’ll show you something (laughs). That’s Shanklin Pier OK?
Helen : Oh yes, I remember.
Derek : That was the ‘D’ that he used to park his Rolls-Royce in there and I mean this picture is from 1930, it’s quite an old picture, you can see by the colours, but I used to work for the Café on the beach. It was down underneath this side here and …
Helen : It’s quite a way out as well isn’t it?
Derek : Yeah it went quite a long way and…
Helen : That’s not the Waverley Steamer is it?
Derek : No, it’s probably one of the old Cambrian ones. I mean it is a ‘30’s steamer but I mean they used to have loads of them come in and out. The Theatre was here and when the storm came, that thing completely flipped over, the whole lot, and it tore all this with it and everything else and there was not a lot left of it. It sort of went up to about here then when it was finished and there was a concrete bit in the middle ‘cos in the middle, in the War they cut a lump out of the Pier like they used to do this in the War, they cut the all the Piers around the South.
Helen : Did they? I didn’t know that.
Derek : Yeah, they cut a slot in them. They slotted the Pier …
Helen : For boats?
Derek : No, so nobody could invade on the Pier.
Helen : Oh, right.
Derek : You see we had funny logical ways in those days. They thought the German Army was going to land on the Pier and make their way into Shanklin, you know? So, they cut a hole in the Pier. Now, troops don’t do that, they come on the beach don’t they? (laughs) But that’s what they done so they cut a great lump out of it and after the War …
Helen : You’ve got no pictures of it with the lump out?
Derek : Umm, I don’t think I have. It was just a cut.
Helen : How weird is that?
Derek : When it came back, it was concrete so they … but I mean it was not done until the early ‘50’s so they built a whole little bar of concrete so it joined onto concrete and I suppose it was a bit difficult to join up a Pier somehow, and that’s where they had all these Bars and all the entertainment there. It was underneath. That stayed there when it blew down, the concrete bit stayed there.
Helen : That stayed there.
Derek : Yeah, that stayed there, and they had to dismantle that eventually but the rest of the Pier was basically rotten it it’s way because when we were working there one year, the Pier went ‘oomph’ one night and we said, “I wonder what that was?” What had happened, two of the piles of the Pier had gone down …
Helen : Had snapped (laughs).
Derek : … so from those days on the Pier had sort of a bit of a slope and I mean they never done anything about it but I mean the trouble was it was never that maintained, this was the problem so all the bits under the water had been forgotten about and some of them had just gone.
Helen : When was it first built then?
Derek : About 1893, something like that.
Helen : So yeah, they wouldn’t have thought about looking after things.
Derek : Well no, and this was the problem I think, when these gale force winds come in ’87, ’88, and there was nothing to keep it there, really. It had gone (laughs), I mean the winds were terrifically strong but it just took it away, and it put it all on the beach, just a long a bit, you know where the road goes down to the seafront, down the hill, it was all there on the beach.
Helen : Hope Road.
Derek : Everything, tons of it all on the beach. And people were there scavenging (laughs).
Helen : And I bet if you scavenged now you’d find something with metal detectors and what have you.
Derek : You probably would yeah, it’s probably been done to death by now though, but I mean that was like 30 years ago wasn’t it? Time flies doesn’t it? Yeah, that was a shame, that was almost a tearful day when that went.
55 minutes 15 seconds
Helen : I bet.
Derek : You know, it was the end of the life story basically there you know?
Helen : That was a bit like Skegness Pier that went the same time. Doosh, gone. It was like a bit dreamy.
Derek : It took a lot of Piers out didn’t it?
Helen : Was it there or wasn’t it there?
Derek : That’s right, you know. I mean from that point on Shanklin seafront died.
Helen : I should think it did yeah.
Derek : Because that was the central point of it, that was the central part.
Helen : Piers were weren’t they?
Derek : Yeah, it was the central hub and when that had gone, I mean now it’s just, I mean you’d still go down there but all you’ve got is that bit. It’s just that ‘D’, that’s all they’ve got and all the rest just went, you know?
Helen : Were they as the Morris Dancers in the summer?
Derek : That’s right, yeah. Morris Dancers, all those sorts of people. I mean it was alive all the time you know, and that mast there, you see that mast just there? That came from the Eurydice ship which sunk off the Isle of Wight in about 1910 or something like that and it appears that was the mast off the ship that made the flag pole.
Helen : Is that there now?
Derek : No, it’s not there now, no. There’s one sort of similar but the one that was there disappeared. It all went.
Helen : The Eurydice.
Derek : The Eurydice, yeah, which sank. It was one of these Naval wooden ships that came back and there was a squall out there and it turned it over. Lost hundreds. That’s another part of sort of …
Helen : Were your parents Isle of Wighters then?
Derek : Yep.
Helen : How far back does your family go?
Derek : Well, my father’s father originally came from Southampton so it don’t go too far back but my mother’s side, she had gran ‘cos gran used to live with us ‘cos her husband died. I mean I never knew any grandfathers because they both died before I was born so I didn’t know them, but she was 80 something when she died and she’d come from the Island, from the country and her parents before her and so they went back quite a long time you know? But no, I think these come from Southampton, my father’s …
Helen : As you do all the archives for everything, have you never done the archive on your family?
Derek : No not really. My daughter’s done a lot of it.
Helen : How far has she got back?
Derek : I don’t know. I think she’s got back to about the mid 1800’s but there was a lot of strange things when you start to archive it seems. My gran was sort of born on my mother’s side, she was sort of born without a mother and father (laughs) …
Helen : Yeah, I get the drift.
Derek : … over in Bonchurch and I think the local Policeman was the way it was … her history was a bit sort of strange you know but of course never talked about it.
Helen : Oh that’s ridiculous.
Derek : Never talked about it, wasn’t talked about at all. I mean back in those days; nobody was interested were they? I mean it was the same was as when … I mean people died in those days and they weren’t old, they were in their ‘60’s, they weren’t old. People that died in their ‘60’s had just died of old age. It was just accepted that was old age, you know. I mean never be heard of now but in those days that was old age and that was it you know? I remember my gran, I mean she spent her last few weeks in the front room at home at Wilton Park Road and they used to have the Doctor come and my mother said to the Doctor one day, she said, you know, “How is she?” and he said, “Well her life is coming to an end” he said, “her organs are failing gradually but as long as I keep on giving her these sweets every week, she’ll be happy ‘cos she thinks she’s being looked after” and he said, “all these tablets are sugar,” he said, “there’s nothing in them.” So, they were placebos in their way in those days. They must have just … ‘you’d better have some of these tablets’. It was a bit like tonic wasn’t ?
Helen : Yes, oh yes absolutely.
Derek : You know, “Could I have any tonic.” “Yes, I’ll give you a bottle.”
Helen : My husband’s grandmother was the local midwife and ‘layer outer’ and he can remember from being a toddler, he said, “Come on, we’re going round to Mr whatever his name is, he died this morning” and he said, “we’d get there and she’d be doing all the bit and he always used to say, “what did they die of then nan?” “Oh, fatted heart” (laughs). He said, “Everybody I knew died of ‘fatted heart’ (laughs).
Derek : Yeah, I mean you never queried it did you?
Helen : No.
Derek : I mean somebody died and that was it, you know, and these people did, they died.
1 hour 31 seconds
Helen : Because they thought 60 was old.
Derek : Yeah, I mean it was wasn’t it? Because before that the cycle before used to die in their 50’s and in Victorian times it was the 40’s you know? I mean people just died.
Helen : 50 now is supposed to be the new 40.
Derek : Well, that’s right, so they say, yeah. Missed that somewhere.
Helen : So we’ll have another 30 years yet Derek (laughs)
Derek : Really? Honestly?
Helen : You never know.
Derek : Oh dear, when you think of it could be worse. Trouble is the body gives up (laughs).
Helen : I read something yesterday where a lady who lives in Ireland. She was 81 and an orphan and she has just found her mother who lives in America who is 103.
Derek : Really? (laughs)
Helen : And two brothers. How amazing is that?
Derek : Good grief. She wouldn’t want to bother after all those years (laughs).
Helen : Oh, I don’t know.
Derek : It’s a good old game with this archiving business.
Helen : What do you think … how can I phrase this? What do you think of your life as a whole now?
Derek : I think I’ve had a good life really.
Helen : Is there anything you haven’t done that you wanted to do or anything you’ve done that didn’t?
Derek : I was proud to say that I was never out of work from when I started. I just never was out of work over 50 odd years, so I feel good about that, you know, that I always catered for my family basically, I was never out of work, but no, I don’t miss anything. All I miss is the fact that I wish I was not the size I am; you know, I’ve always been big …
Helen : Oh you’ve always been …
Derek : … yeah, it would be nice not to have been big sometimes because I mean I think you skip out on certain things don’t you, some things.
Helen : Probably.
Derek : Sometimes you know, when I was 15 I went to the Hospital at Ryde, there used to be a Hospital at Ryde then and in one of the Clinics and my Doctor said, “I think you should see somebody about a dietician.” I mean this is … we’re talking 1960, ’62, something like that.
Helen : Really?
Derek : Yeah, he said, “I think you should go to a Dietician” and I went to this Dietician, a chap and he said, “So, you basically want to die do you?” I mean, being politically correct in these days and I said, “I’m sorry?” and well he said, “You’re not going to live past 30” he said, “the way you are.” He said, “You’re just so overweight” he said, “you are just going to die” ‘cos he said, “your organs will give up, so I suggest” he said, “that you go on a very strict diet.”
Helen : Is this ‘cos dad was a Baker?
Derek : It didn’t help I don’t think. There was always bread and cakes you see and in those days, you know, if you didn’t have enough meat on the table, you’d have a slice of bread or something, you know, and I don’t think that helped at all but I mean it must be in the genes somewhere mustn’t it?
Helen : I agree.
Derek : ‘Cos my mother was a big woman, but I remember he put me on a diet and this diet, you just couldn’t live with it really. I mean it was half a walnut shell of margarine per day (laughs) and you’ve got to remember I’m not a teenager of 15, still at school, leaving school. Half a walnut full of spread, not butter, margarine yeah, per day. Well, that wasn’t enough really to spread on a round of sandwiches, you know, and that was it. I always remember that bit about the walnut shell but anything else I don’t remember, but, I’m still here, I’m 72.
Helen : Did you lose weight?
Derek : Umm, no, not particularly. The only time I lost weight was after my daughter was born in ’75, I thought I’ve got to get rid of some of this weight because I mean this is just a bit silly because I’m going to have be expected to be pretty fit and all sort of thing with youngsters, so I went to Weight Watchers in Newport. They had a Weight Watchers in Newport then and I went for a year and I lost eight stone in a year so I got down to 12 stone, something like that, and got the awards and everything else for the year you know, and then all my teeth fell out. And then I became impotent and I couldn’t have any more children and that must have been something to do with the diet.
1 hour 5 minutes 16 seconds
Helen : Of course, yeah.
Derek : These days you would sue somebody wouldn’t you but in those days you know … I always remember going to my Doctor because I lived in Godshill then still and I went to the Doctor and I said, “I don’t feel very well” and he looked at me he said, “Where’s all your weight gone?” I said, “I went to Weight Watchers for a year.” “Why did you go to Weight Watchers for a year?” he said. I said, “I thought it was about time I lost some weight ‘cos I’ve got a young baby” and he said, “You didn’t come and see me first did you?” and I said, “Well, no,” and he said, “Well why didn’t you come and see me first?” I said, “Well you know, I’ve been through the realms of Doctors and Clinics and things” I said, “and nothing’s ever happened.” He said, “If you don’t do something about putting weight on” he said, “you’re going to die” he said, “because your heart doesn’t know what it’s doing.” He said, “You heart is still working for the body mass you had” he said, “and your heart is just going to blow up.” So, he said, “You need to go and eat everything that’s bad for you and put some weight on” he said, “otherwise you won’t be here.” I mean when you look back things you’re told are awful really, so I started to eat things which were sweet again, you know, because that’s the way it is.
Helen : And I bet the weight went on a lot faster than it came off.
Derek : Yeah, yeah, because you know the Weight Watchers diets in those days, I mean I think they’re totally different now but in those days they were very bland, absolutely bland, you know, so you lost anything to do with sweetness or taste of it. It was all bland stuff.
Helen : You did really well though.
Derek : Yeah I know but what did it prove? Nothing at all really. Just lost my teeth. I mean the teeth used to just drop out. I’d just be eating, and the teeth would, oh, another one’, they just dropped out because I suppose there was something wrong in the body, you see, something had gone wrong.
Helen : Yeah, it wasn’t maintaining …
Derek : Something wasn’t maintaining the sort of way it should be in the body and things just didn’t work anymore basically.
Helen : So, these days then, do you just eat what you want, when you want?
Derek : Yeah, I don’t worry about it. I just eat, you know. If I die, I die (laughs).
Helen : Yes but you see you’re being greedy; you’ve gone over three score years and ten (laughs).
Derek : Well that’s right you see. Yeah ‘cos I can die now, and it doesn’t matter because you’re over that age you know. Oh, you’ve done well but you died, you know.
Helen : I’m heading closer to that and I think ‘Oh God I shall have to stop saying that’.
Derek : I don’t think it makes any difference really because I’ve known so many mates that have died. You know, they have died already, and they’ve died eight, ten, twelve years ago some of them, you know, and they weren’t overweight or anything else, but they’ve died. You know, you think I should just live normally. I mean I don’t overeat or anything like that. I mean I only eat the same as my wife, that’s just the way it is.
Helen : Is she chubby or thin?
Derek No, no she’s not chubby, she’s thin. Well, not thin but she’s not chubby. No, she’s OK, she’s fine. I mean she has her own problems, she’s got a bad heart, she’s got asthma, cataracts (laughs) you name it she’s got it (laughs).
Helen : You’re saying all those things but we’re still here. 50 years back or 40 years back you’d have died, you’d have gone.
Derek : Oh you’d been gone. Yeah that’s right, you’d have died, gone, that’s right. Oh yeah, I mean it’s all sort of maintained now isn’t it? This is the thing, you know, as long as you take all your tablets in the morning (laughs). “Have you taken your tablet?” “Yes, yes, I’ve taken my tablets, I’ll be alright” you know.
Helen : I often wonder if you’ve got like a little … I ‘ve thought about this since I was a kid, if you’ve got a little signpost that when it gets to your sternum, right that one goes that way, that one goes that way, and that one goes that way.
Derek : “Come on, where’s my tablets, I need my tablets?” I mean my Doctor nowadays never bothers; you know. I mean I’ve got a painful leg; my left leg is … they don’t know what’s wrong with it, it’s just very painful at times and he said …
Helen : Age.
Derek : He said, “Your body” he said, “you’ve worked all your life” he said, “you know, your body’s heavy on your legs” and he said, “can’t cure it.”
Helen : Feet are wonderful things aren’t they? They carry us about for ever.
Derek : He said, “I can’t tell you what’s wrong with it.” I mean I’ve been to the Podiatry Department in Newport and they gave me inserts in my shoes because they said I walked with a roll. They said, “You walk with a roll” and I said, “I probably walked with a roll all my life to be honest with you.” But they said, “You need that to be corrected and that would help” and nah, it doesn’t help. I’ve gone to and fro there for over the last three years and I think you’ve just got to accept in the end that’s one of the things you’ve got to bear, you’ve got to put up with it, you know? My wife’s got a hip that’s iffy and she puts up with that so we hobble about together at times.
Helen : (laughs). But at least you’re hobbling about.
Derek : Well yeah, we’re hobbling about still, you know and things ….
Interview ends
1 hour 10 minutes 33 seconds
Transcribed May 2019
Chris Litton
